Science Connections
From the science classroom. For the science classroom. Science education looks different today than it ever has before. The constant flow of new ideas and challenges opens up exciting opportunities for scientists, educators, and learners alike to reexamine our world and our place in it. Join middle school science educator Eric Cross as he sits down with fellow educators, scientists, and engineers to explore the best ways we can improve our K–8 science teaching practices and create wonder for young minds.
Science Connections
Winter Wrap-Up 01: Community and joy within K-8 science instruction
While we gear up for the next season of Science Connections: The Podcast, we're revisiting some of our favorite conversations from past seasons!
In this episode, we join Eric Cross as he sits down with physicist and science education specialist, Desiré Whitmore. Listen in as Desiré explains her work at the Exploratorium, a public learning laboratory. Eric and Desiré discuss finding passion in science, the importance of meeting students we’re they’re at, and K–8 science instruction with real-life connections. Desiré chats with Eric about her work on supporting the science of teaching science content at the Exploratorium museum.
Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.
I think it, it's really amazing when we can realize as teachers, like, no, our job is not to just enforce rules on our students, right? Our job is to like help students to achieve more learning.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Science Connections. I'm your host Eric Cross. Now, before we get to today's episode, I want to give you a little peek behind the scenes here at the podcast. We're currently working on what I think will be an awesome third season of the show, and in the coming weeks I'll be able to give you more details about what's ahead. In the meantime, while we're getting that ready, we're going to feature a couple of our favorite conversations from the first two seasons. To start off, we're sharing something from the very first season of the show. Actually, it's just our second episode. It's a conversation with physicists and science education specialist Dr. Desiree Whitmore. Desiree is held positions as a science curriculum specialist with amplified science, a professor of laser and photonics technology at Irvine Valley College, and is now the senior physics educator in the Teacher Institute at the Exploratorium in San Francisco. I think Desiree's perspective is so valuable to share. In this episode. She talks about her current work, helping middle and high school science teachers to teach through inquiry. She also discusses her own pathway into physics, including some at-home experiments involving a microwave, and she talks about the impact of educators in her life and the importance of representation in the classroom for students, including her younger self. We've spent the past few years talking about the importance of these topics, but there's still more work that needs to be done to ensure all students have access to teachers in the classroom who they can identify and connect with. And with that said, here's my conversation with Dr. Desiree Whitmore.
Speaker 3:Alright,
Speaker 2:So just, just like a superhero stem superhero, you have an origin story and so long
Speaker 1:Is this podcast gonna be cuz I, you know, I can talk for days. You I
Speaker 2:Know, I know, but it's, it's, so, okay. Well, you can give us a highlight so, you know, like 30 minutes. Um, but like, what, what would be like the origin story? You can start from any point in time, but how, what's that journey like?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna start at the beginning when I was really young, just because I think it's important. Um, like neither of my parents were college educated. My mother didn't finish high school. Uh, my father went back and got a G E D later, right? But my father's grandmother, her name was Claudia Pers, and she was a teacher, right? So when I was a kid, she actually kind of raised me from like, I don't know, until I was around seven or eight. And so she was like very important in like, who I became, I think because she taught me that like, college is important and she taught me to think, she taught me to ask questions, right? She taught me like how to ask questions, just like the Exploratorium likes to do, which is like why I fit so well here. Like, she taught me to always wonder and always think about things. And I remember as a kid, she, you know, she taught me to count and read and write when I was like three. And she would always like, have bubbles at her house. And I was obsessed with bubbles. Like I thought bubbles were the coolest thing in the world. And just how, like, you can take your breath and create this thing that now you can see, and it's your breath, right? It's like your breath inside of a bubble and it's flying around and it has all these cool colors and then it would like fly up and then eventually just pop. And you're like, where did it go? Like now my breath is just up there not understanding as a kid, but like my breath is always everywhere. I didn't understand any of that, but I understood that my breath was inside of a bubble. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. But that's like my earliest memory of thinking about science was from that. And she was not a science teacher. She was, I don't even know what she taught. I think she was an elementary school teacher, maybe. Um, she died when I was 12. So I don't have like, super strong memories or of understanding who she was, you know, only that she raised me and like what she taught me as a kid. But that in itself like really helped me because then when I was in the environment that I was in at home with my parents, which was not at all like the environment she provided for me, I always had the things she taught me in my head, right? So I was always asking questions. My mother hated it. I was always like taking things apart and putting them back together. So I used to take apart like TVs and BCRs and vacuum cleaners and telephones, and my mother's like, oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna murder you. And she tried couple times.
Speaker 2:Did you ever put'em back together and realize you had extra parts? You're like, oh, hi, I
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. All time. Yeah. Yeah. Like VCRs have a lot of extra pieces. You're like, what do you, it still works. Like, it's fine. You know? Um, and vacuum cleaners too. They had a lot of extra parts,<laugh> all the time. And TVs. I should not have been playing with TVs. But like I said, I didn't have a lot of like, parental, um, guidance as a child. So like whatever I'm opening up TVs, um, there's
Speaker 2:A lot of open inquiry going on in Yeah. In your household. Yeah. Uh, unsupervised.
Speaker 1:Unsupervised. But I didn't know what it was or what it meant as a kid. Right. Um, I mean, I used to put things in the microwave. I did so many microwave experiments as a child trying to cook different foods or like melt different things. And so I think those kinds of experiences, like where I was allowed to just be curious, kind of shaped who I am today. Right. And then, and then I kind of got into, you know, when I was in school, I loved math. In 10th grade, I had my first black teacher, he was my chemistry teacher, his name was Mr. Strickland. And I was like, chemistry is cool dude. And he was not the best teacher, but he was fun. Like you were saying, he was like me mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And he was talking to us the way I speak. And he was so like, just kind of chill and happy go-lucky, I guess. And then, but he wasn't, he hadn't taught chemistry in a long time, so, um, he wasn't very good teacher. And me and one other kid in the class would, were like in love with chemistry. And so we would read the book and do all the homework and he'd be in class lecturing and we're like, that's not right, Mr. Strickland, like, what are you talking about? And then he'd be like, oh, really? Desiree, do you wanna teach the class? Then I'll be like, yeah. And so I would go up and I would teach my chemistry class in high school because the teacher was trying to make an example out of me. But he was also, I think like willing to be like, I really don't know. So, and I really appreciated that, that he wasn't just like, I know all of the answers and you're wrong. Like, he wasn't being a jerk. Right? Like, the fact that I said yes, I do wanna teach it and he actually let me do it. That's pretty dumb. Right. You know? And then I liked physics in my senior year in high school, but I didn't think it was like where I was gonna go or anything. I loved music and I loved math. Those were my two subjects.
Speaker 2:What was it about math that like resonated with you?
Speaker 1:I think it helped me understand the world a lot better. Like, I didn't have strong science teachers, I guess growing up. Um, it was a lot of like reading out of books or like watching laser discs in class, you know, that's how old I am. Laser discs. Laser discs. Um, and uh, you know, so there wasn't a lot of, and I moved around a lot as a kid. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I didn't have just like this straight curriculum, you know, in one year, like in the third grade I went to three different schools, right? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Oh wow.
Speaker 1:It was kinda hard for me to like latch onto school. Um, but with math, because I could, I could look at math and like actually understand the world in it. I could see how like math can be used to describe how things work.
Speaker 2:I almost imagine like the, especially with so much transition in your life, like, it, it, it helped make sense of things. You, I mean, you had a lot of transition going on, but you were able to understand the world through these, through the process of math. And then this early exposure. It kind of reminds me like my own story too, because there were these books that would do these cross sections of like a cruise ship or a machine. That's what got me really into engineering. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah. It like how, kinda how stuff works. I would watch that on Nova, like how stuff works that I'd always be fascinated. Even Sesame Street had to se had a segment where they would show you like crayons and how the dye was added. You
Speaker 1:Remember that? Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Young Desiree doing photonics, photonics,
Speaker 1:Photonics,
Speaker 2:Photonics, photonics at home with their microwave and all these other things,
Speaker 1:Uh, about
Speaker 2:Right. And then, and then gra like loving math. So you, early I could see this like combination sort of like this alchemy help happening inside you. And then how does, how did that lead to you becoming a physicist?
Speaker 1:It's not as straightforward as it seems it should be. It's obvious to everyone.<laugh>, but it wasn't obvious to me cause I wanted to be a lawyer, you know, because my parents weren't educated. They didn't really know both of my parents and their subsequent spouses when they broke up. So my, my parents and my stepparents are all bus drivers. And so they don't know what options are. Right. So for them it's like, you have to be, you can be a doctor, you can be a lawyer cuz you're smart. I know you're smart, so you're gonna be one of those things. And it was like, I don't wanna be a doctor. Like, that's not actually interesting to me. I did wanna be a teacher when I was younger because I knew that my grandmother was one. But yeah, I went in and I was like, I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm gonna be a lawyer. And then I go to college and I was like, eh, I don't<laugh>. I hate writing. Like I love reading, but I don't like writing. So I don't think I wanna be a lawyer. I love music and I love math. I was originally going to major in music and math, but then I went to community college because I missed my opportunity to go to university for long story. And so I'm at community college and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna just do something new. I'm gonna be like a marine biologist. So my major was marine biology, and then they're helping me pick out my classes. And they had zero math there. And I was like, um, pardon me. I think there's a mistake, but I, I'm not taking any math. And they were like, no, you're done with all your math. Like for marine biology, you only need calculus and you took all of that in high school, so you're done. And I was like, no, this is not gonna work for me, dude. So I continued taking calculus anyway and moving on in math and then I realized that biology wasn't what I needed. Okay. But I did love my chemistry and I loved my physics classes. So I asked those teachers, chemistry, physics and math teachers in community college. My professors, I don't wanna be a marine biologist and I don't wanna be a lawyer. Like what do I do? What do you think I could study? I really like chemistry and math and physics. And so all of them, all three of these professors told me, oh, it sounds like chemical engineering would be good for you, so you should be a chemical engineer. And I was like, okay, cool. No problem. That's what I did. So I got my degree in chemical engineering, right. And I, I finished community college studying chemical engineering. I was like, this is really cool. This is a lot of fun. Like, I love engineering. And then I transferred to UCLA as a chemical engineering major. And I was like, I hate this<laugh>. Like I hate it a lot. Um, it
Speaker 2:Was, what was it, what was it about chemical engineering that you were like just not feeling anymore? What was it that just made you go? Nope,
Speaker 1:It didn't, at least the way it was taught to me. Um, it wasn't as like as ex exploratory, I guess. Like there was, there wasn't a lot of theory in it. There was just a lot of like, okay, pull out a ruler and you're gonna draw a thing and then this is how you're gonna build a reactor. And like, it didn't seem very scientific to me. Like the science was missing. And it don't get me wrong, I understand now that I have a degree in chemical engineering that it's not that, it's that chemical engineering is not scientific, but it's that you, you build up the science and then you don't focus on it. You focus on the engineering aspect of it, which is like, you have the science and the scientists will work on that aspect mm-hmm.<affirmative>, but then how can we do kind of larger batch chemistry, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And for me that was just less interesting. It was a lot of like pushing buttons and just plug and play equations kind of stuff. Instead of like diving into like first principles of like why things happen in chemical engineering. There was no why things happen. It was like, this is what happens. So this is the next step.
Speaker 2:You had to go so far into your, your academic career to realize that this is what chemical engineering is. And we were talking about representation and like not have, or not having examples or like parents, you know, your, your, uh, your families were, were your family members were bus drivers. My, my mom was a, you know, receptionist and executive assistant, things like that. And I was a first of many. Like you, we kind, you kind of had to go through and invest all this time and money to finally get to this place to realize this ain't it. Like this is,
Speaker 1:This is not me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is not for me. That, that was the Yeah, that was a lot, a long journey to get to that point.
Speaker 1:It was. Especially because I went through community college mm-hmm.<affirmative> and I took a long time in community college cause I was working full-time, right. So I was working full-time, going to community college. Took me a while and then I finally get to ucla. I'm like, yeah, I'm finally gonna get my degree and go make money. And then I was like, Ooh,<laugh>. No. I mean, I could go and make money, don't get me wrong. I could have graduated and made a ton of money, but it, I was not happy at all and I did not enjoy what I was doing. So, um, while I was an undergrad, I realized I don't wanna do chemical engineering anymore, but what do I wanna do? Right? But then I was taking like, um, I took a quantum mechanics class and that class blew my whole mind. And I was like, this is the coolest thing that I've ever learned in my life and this is what I wanna do. Right. And so I went and talked to my professor and I was like, can I work for you? Like, can I do research? Um, because this is amazing and I wanna do this. Right. I felt like it was too late for me. I had been in school for so long and I was already kind of burnt out. So I was like mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I'm not going to change my major. That's just outta the question for me right now. It costs so much money for this degree and I don't have, I'm not just gonna waste my time and keep working all these jobs. So I had three jobs in college and it was like, I don't, you know, I worked at Radio Shack, I did research for this professor and I worked in the library, the chemistry and, and physics.
Speaker 2:I love, I love the fact that we, we've talked about laser discs, you said Radio Shack and we talked about the analog internet of those library or the, uh, encyclopedia salespeople that I've<laugh> and I know all of those things. And I've been through all of those things together.
Speaker 1:Case how old I am. Yes. I,
Speaker 2:For our listeners who are way younger, uh, yeah. This is how we grew up. This is how we, this is these, these things are like extincted now. There's, there's this element of, of this kind of cultural connection. I think that we experience that. It's kind of like it flies under the radar. We, people don't really realize it until you're in an environment that's different from what you're used to mm-hmm.<affirmative> and you realize that, oh wow. Like this is, this is not, not what I'm used to. And the things that I'm finding funnier, the things that I connect with, uh, it's not what everybody else connects with. And, and as a teacher, it's the same thing, right? Like, we go in the classroom and you know, we we're, you and I are rapping about laser discs and, and Radio Shack and I'm trying to talk to my kids about it. And they're like, yo, cross, like, what is, what is that? Are you gonna give us a history lesson? Like what is, what are these things? Yeah. And I find I, I found myself having to stay connected to pop culture. Um, because I teach 12 and 13 year olds all day. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And it's great for keeping things relevant for my students. But when I talk to my friends that are my peers, they're like, unless they're a teacher, they're like, I, I got no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I have a friend who's also a middle school teacher and she's always coming to me with all this. I'm like, what are you talking about? She did the glow up challenge, but she did the glow down challenge. So she like invented a new thing. She's like, no, I couldn't do glow up cuz that's like too much. So I did the glow down challenge and it's the cutest thing ever. It's<laugh> and the students think it's amazing. And I'm like, that's awesome. But I have no idea what the point of that is.<laugh>
Speaker 2:The, and this, there's this theme too that, that, you know, when we talk about, you know, teaching, teaching kids stem, like being able to, there's this soft part of it, this this relational piece of it that you mentioned of like this connective aspect that in a certain way kind of even superseded the, the content knowledge that your teacher even had at that point where you're going up and teaching the class mm-hmm.<affirmative>. But just the fact that someone looked like you or spoke like you or connected with you in a certain way made a big difference to who you are as a, as well the trajectory of where you went. Like, yeah, I like, I like chemistry. It resonates with me and it, it's something I think can get lost. And I think just to kind of a good segue, like I, I use Amplify my classroom and one of the reasons why is because of the representation that is in these videos. And you were part of crafting this for, uh, you know, was it, was it the fifth grade
Speaker 1:Or, I mean it was K eight so I was ok,
Speaker 2:So you were doing the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was a part of the K eight, uh, science team. My title was like science curriculum specialist. But in reality I was hired to do the engineering internships mostly. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, which are like middle school mm-hmm.<affirmative> and to, um, be a sim developer. So Sims K eight, I worked on several of them in both middle school and elementary. Yeah.
Speaker 2:What was that, what was that like for you? Like when you were designing curriculum? Cause as a teacher it's, you know, I think with teachers it's kind of like the, I'm a, I would consider myself if I was gonna use hip hop as a metaphor, I'm more of a de more of a DJ than an mc. Where like I wanna remix kind of things that exist versus I don't wanna write the lyrics in freestyle. So like, I don't want to go and write the curriculum completely. I want to take something that's solid and then I want to go ahead and remix it. You are great to both. What was the process like for you? Like being on that team designing? Like how did you go about making, okay, we're gonna create this experience for kids?
Speaker 1:It was, it was amazing<laugh>, like it's, I learned so much, so much. Like it was the best job I had before I came to the Exploratorium, right? The process was amazing because it wasn't just me, right? I can't, it wasn't just me, it was a whole team and each unit had its own team, right? So we had a scientist, which I was the scientist we had, so we had a scientist, we had a literacy specialist because it was really important to kind of increase science literacy so that students understand like, not just, not just that science exists, but like what are the terms that are used in science and how can I speak and act like a scientist? Right? What are the things that scientists actually do in their real life? Then we had an assessment specialist and then we had a simulation specialist. And so on the units that I was on, sometimes I was both the sim developer and the scientist, or sometimes I was just the sim developer and I got to work alongside another scientist, which was always fun. Um, and so it was really nice because I was working alongside master teachers, right? People who had been teaching for years and they were able to help me better understand, like, cuz I'll come in and I'll be like, yeah, there's a unit on light waves, let's come in and teach this unit on light waves, right? I<laugh> I was the sim developer and scientist on that unit, and there was another scientist working on the unit, but they were like, well, Desiree literally builds lasers, so I think she should be the science developer. So we kinda had two science developers on that one, which was fun. But I come in and so, you know, she'll come in and she'll be like, yeah, I think this is where we wanna go and this is what we wanna teach. I'm like, no way. Like, that's not accurate, right? And so I can come in, but then I'm coming in with all this crazy lingo, right? I'm up here. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I'm like, but then also I have taught kids about lasers and optics and photonics my whole career. So I'm also very capable of bringing it down to where kids need it to be. What I don't know is like how effective that is, right? Like, when to do it and when not to do it. When to bring the level up, when to bring the level down. And so working alongside these other teachers and assessors really helped me to do that. And so for me it was just, it was two years of like deep learning experience. Um, like I learned every single day at work, I learned something new, which is something that I value and I've wanted in my career, my whole life. We made active decisions in that room. Like, we want to interview scientists who are scientists of color or who have different abilities or who have different representations in all kinds of ways, right? And then we also have these fake internships, or even not even the internships, but just in the general units. And we actively, like, we wrote scripts for those. Yeah. And we actively wrote in those scripts, like, this is a black woman, this is an Indian woman, this is a, you know, Jewish man in a wheelchair. Like, we specifically dictated exactly who we wanted in these videos because we knew that representation was super important and we knew that we wanted students to be able to connect.
Speaker 2:Right. One of the things, uh, I, I appreciate what I'm hearing a lot and that is the amount of intentionality that went into this, but even now is you're re even now as you're reliving it, you're, you're still kind of almost iterating on how could we improve it or how can we make it different or, or reach more people. And I think that that kind of goes towards when we're talking about including more people and inclusion, like, it's not a binary thing. Like you're, you're, you're, it's, you're always modifying, you're always iterating, you're always redesigning and improving to, to, to be more inclusive, to reach more students. Because you know, to your point, like part of it is yes, we wanna do this really awesome science curriculum, but the other part of it is there's more to it than just your content. And I think like now more than ever, you know, I, I, I use, uh, we just, we just finished the, the, um, food bar unit Mm. Metabolism. And in there there's a simulator, they always ask me when I show the videos, are these, are these this real situ? Are these real people? Are these real situations? And I, I tell them, I go, well, the story is real, but these are all fictional actors, but what's actually happening happens. It's it's real. And they get really into it. And I think one of the other things I like is like with your simulations, especially the engineering units, there's no one right answer. In, in some of my students who want to go into Mr. Cross, I wanna make the best bar perfect 10 best taste cheapest. And I'm like, all right, good luck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go do that
Speaker 2:Tradeoffs. And it could happen. And they're like, they're trying, they get into the code, they try to, they try to open up the inspect element. They feel like packers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do. But these kids like, they're so smart and they're so resourceful. And I'm just thinking like, maybe that's how we challenge them more, right? It's like sometimes we can give them these kinds of things where it's like, go and create a program cuz that's the level you're at<laugh>. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> go and create this program to do something similar that's related to the work that we're doing.
Speaker 2:I've had some of my own students, uh, redesign. I have one student who redesigns every assessment I give him. He, he, I, I give the project, I give the options for the final goal. And he always chooses, if I give three options, he always chooses option four. If I choose two options, he's choose option three. And so he'll go into Google Sheets, he'll, he'll pull all the data and then he'll construct his own kind of spreadsheet with all the probabilities of, of different things.
Speaker 1:You should tell this kid to make a GitHub right now so that he can get a job as soon as he's done<laugh>. Yeah. He,
Speaker 2:He, he's amazing. And, and he, uh, we did this one project, uh, where students had to design a Netflix show to show their understanding of metabolism. And they had to do four episodes. So I gave'em a template. It's not from me, it's from I think EdTech picks.org or something. And it's, it looks like the whole, you know, Netflix splash page. They took photos, they did the whole deal. He created Netflix. So his, his everyone else did Google Slides. His Google Slides was interactive. So when you clicked on different boxes, it actually took you to the next splash page of that show. I mean, it was
Speaker 1:That's fantastic.
Speaker 2:It was, it was. I I record his presentation. Uh, it was, it was brilliant. Um,
Speaker 1:But that's amazing. And that, that speaks to like your strengths as a teacher and why you're an amazing teacher because you see the students and what they're trying to do and you work with them, you meet them where they are. Right? Like there are so many teachers who would just be frustrated with that student and it'd be like, no, these aren't, these are not your options. Like, your option was to do what I told you to do. Right. And there are many teachers who would do that. And I think it, it's really amazing when we can realize as teachers, like, no, our job is not to just enforce rules on our students. Right? I mean, that is part of the job because that's what school was when it was created. But our job is to like, help students to achieve more learning, right. In what we're trying to do. And so the fact that you are so good with this student and that you encourage him to do, like, to go above and beyond when he can, I think is like so amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, that, that brings me to my favorite group organization and the phase of your career of where you are now, the Exploratorium. And I wanted to, uh, kind of wrap talking about like what you do now, uh, because in the Exploratorium, I tell people, they go, what is that place? And, and maybe you can tell us what it is and then what you do. But for, for me, I'll just tell everybody, it's like Disneyland for science teachers. And it, it, I love going there. I not only love going there because of what I receive from it professionally. Um, many of the, the, the PDs, I don't, I don't even call'em PDs, but like, just communal learning experiences, uh, that I've had that have been led by you and, and, uh, and, and Lori and, and Tammy and the rest and everybody, uh, that's there, um, have, have been incredible. And I have so much fun. E emotionally, I get excited when I go. I'm like, when I'm on the plane, I'm like, here we go. And then we go in, we're making fudge or we're blowing darts with marshmallows across the room in the theme of Bobba Fe. Like there's just these rad things that are going on there. And it's not like anything I've ever experienced before. Um, so maybe we can, we can close with talking about like what the exploratorium is, what you do there kind of, so pe for people who've never been and, and have been a part of it. So
Speaker 1:I'm gonna give you what my definition of the exploratory is. That's what we want. So like, I mean, the actual definition is like, we are a public learning laboratory. Um, we are known as the Museum of Art Science and Human Perception. Cool. But like what does that all mean? Right. And I think your description of the Disneyland for science teachers, I think that's a perfect description. Cuz for me, I tell people like, oh, I wanna go to the happiest place on earth. And for me, that is the Exploratorium. And yes, I work there and yes, it's still true for me. Right? So the Exploratorium is this huge museum. It's a, it's an interactive science museum. Um, and art, we have a lot of art. Um, and it's all about learning through doing. We don't really, it's not about learning science By going up to an exhibit and reading the little paper next to it, it's like, no, you go up to an exhibit and you interact with it and you teach yourself science. Right? The goal of the exploratorium is really to help people understand that learning science, doing sciences isn't reserved for only scientists. Doing science is something that everyone in the world should and does do. Um, and so helping people understand that everything we do is science is kind of the point of the exploratory. To me,
Speaker 2:Even the building itself, one of the other cool things too is like, for people that don't know, it's, it's like the size of Costco or two, it's
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's, it's immense. And even the building itself teaches, like, you have that whole workshop, like dead center in the middle of the floor where they're designing things. It's like inside out. And then I remember going to the one experience where I think it was Eric who showed us that it's one of the few facilities that is actually cooled by the Bay Water. Yeah. And there's only like a couple of those in the state that can do that. And it has like a platinum rating, something wild like that. Um, so even like just the building itself, like everything that if they can extract every ounce of science teaching in that, it's, it's, it's in there. And yeah. You are in a very important program for me. And, um, can you talk a little bit about maybe what you're doing?
Speaker 1:So I am in the teacher institute. I'm a physicist and the teacher institute. And so the teacher institute is a group of teachers and scientists. And our job is to basically support middle school and high school science teachers and teacher leaders in the state of California, but science teachers around the world, um, in their pursuit of science teaching, right? So, and by support, I mean we provide professional development. I mean, we provide other things like communities of practice and like, um, we go into workshops in certain places. We go to, uh, we go to India to teach Tibetan monks and nuns, um, science. And we go to Costa Rica to teach teachers all over the state, the country of Costa Rica, about science. And so our job is really, uh, to help science teachers feel more secure in their science teaching, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and help to retain them in the field because a good science teacher is so important in helping our students thrive, right? And so our jobs, and we take this very seriously, is to help science teachers thrive. Um, and, you know, we are made up of PhD scientists and veteran classroom teachers. So we have on the one side teachers who have been teaching middle school or high school for years. Like one of my coworkers, Zeke, who I work with the most, he is, he was a high school physics and environmental science teacher for 21 years before coming to the Exploratorium. And then me, I was never a classroom teacher, right? I was a, I was a professor, I was a physics professor at a community college and I was a, you know, a researcher. So like my, my deep knowledge of physics and like current knowledge of physics or knowledge of current physics combined with Zeke's, like extremely, um, experienced pedagogy is like really how we work together as a team, right? And it's not just Zeke, right? We've got a geologist on the team, Eric Mueller. We've got Tammy, who's a middle school bio teacher. We've got, um, Julie U who is a chemical engineer, PhD and also a prior middle school teacher, former middle school teacher. We've got Hillary Ossoff, who was a, uh, PhD biologist who used to work at the American Museum of Natural History. Um, we've got Lori Lambertson, who was a middle school math teacher. Um, and so, you know, we all come together to really bring our experiences both in and out of the classroom and in and and out of the research lab to kind of provide teachers with the best inquiry driven stuff we can. And we're very like, we're so equity focused because we believe that that's important, right? Like, we know that the impact of our work is, I think why most of us are here. It's why I'm here. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> in undergrad, my grad school and my postdoc, I would go into classrooms, I would go into science museums and teach science to people. And I probably reached out to maybe over that whole time I would say a couple thousand people, right? Maybe a couple thousand people total. That's great. But over 15 years of reaching out to and only reaching a couple thousand people, that's like, that's rough, right? And then now I'm at the Exploratorium and I know that if I reach one teacher, right? If I can teach one teacher, let's say you, how many students do you have in your classes a year?
Speaker 2:200 a year.
Speaker 1:You have 200 students a year that you teach. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So if you teach for 10 years mm-hmm.<affirmative>, right? That's 2000. That's 2000 students. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I have, by teaching you today mm-hmm.<affirmative>, assuming that I'm actually teaching you something that's gonna be useful for you.
Speaker 2:You do. And you are,
Speaker 1:You are going to be impacting these 2000 students over the next 10 years. And of course you're gonna be in teaching for much longer than that. But let's just say in 10 years that payoff is so much higher, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, and you're one teacher, but I have 30 of you in my workshop. Right? And so if all of these 30 teachers each teach 2000 kids over the next 10 years, then like I'm actually doing something. I'm actually changing the way that students see science through changing the way that you see science. Right? And so I think I take my job very seriously as we all do. Like, we're so invested in our teachers. And it's not that we don't care about students, cuz we absolutely do, but we understand that without good teachers, students aren't going to be able to thrive, um, as often as they would otherwise. Like I was able to do it somehow, right? But I'm one, right? There are so many other kids who could have gone into science who didn't because they, they felt like they never connected to it. So our job is to try to help teachers connect to it. And an important part of that is allowing you all to experience science as a learner. We want you to play and have joyful experiences. We want you to enjoy science and to try to think about it from the perspective of your students, right. Walk in their shoes so that when you're then go back to your classroom, you are able to like think about like, oh yeah, you know, my students totally asked the same question that I asked or that another teacher asked in the workshop because they had the foresight to think about. That's what my students would ask. Right.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it, it, it, it does a, it's really effective to create empathy for the learner because I find myself in that position. I, I don't know if some kind of like memory displacement field happens to me when I sit in those workshops, but like Hillary will ask a question that I know the answer to and I'm like, I don't want to answer the question. I don't, I'm, I might be wrong. I'm like, and I teach the subject mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and I embody what it's like to be a student. And those, when I leave, I might have to go back and reference exactly what the lesson was, but I remember how I felt when I didn't know. And very rarely as teachers do we get put in positions like that. And so it helps me be in the position of my students emotionally of what it's like, even even the intentionality of how you ask questions and not showing an affect on your face when somebody says the right answer or the wrong answer. Well,
Speaker 1:I'm still learning that I'm not great at it. Julie is the math.
Speaker 2:Julie's got nailed.
Speaker 1:I'm still trying to learn from her. She's amazing. And I, I really like to get there one day, but I'm still not there. I'll be like, oh, oh, well that's, I have terrible poker face, so I'll be like, oh yeah, but you think that maybe that's a piece of it that's really important, right? Is like this not giving away the answer mm-hmm.<affirmative> even when you have the right answer. Like allowing people to ask the questions and explore, like, and become invested in the problem before giving away the answer. Like that's something that I learned here at the Exploratorium. And I, like I said, I learn every day, right? And it's something that I think is so important for us as teachers to kind of learn and try to implement. Because oftentimes you'll come and you'll have students who are like, I'm too stupid. I don't know the answer. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And then somebody else will say the answer. And then it's like, well, the student is like, yeah, I was right. I'm too stupid. But it's like, no, but if you have that student, actually think about it, then the student, once they do hear the right answer, they might be like, oh yeah, that one makes sense. You know, instead of like, I'm stupid. It's like, no, this is, I explored this and I figured it out on my own.
Speaker 2:Things keep coming back to how this experience and the process of them learning science even kind of outweighs the content of it. Cuz the content is almost easier to, to, it's easier to share, it's easier to get, you can look it up really quickly mm-hmm.<affirmative>, but in your story and in many other people's stories, the exposure, the experience, how they're going through that process. I know that's something that I've, I learned a lot in just watching the, not teaching science, but actually science of teaching, sitting in the workshops and like watching how we're treated as students, how we, how you interact with us, and then being able to take that back to the classroom. And just to add on to the value that it's created. I think one thing that is also done is given us community. And in addition to being able to impact students, it's also been able to build resilience and teachers because we as teachers can feel very isolated. Um, and especially now when things are incredibly difficult and everyone, every teacher's experiencing, you know, covid and shutdowns and, and, and low staffing across the country in different ways when you don't feel like you have community or people that you can connect with mm-hmm.<affirmative>, it just makes everything feel exponentially harder. And you've done a great job at being able to build community with us in our community of practice. The Exploratorium is being able to do that. And it's something that I'm, um, super grateful for probably more than anything else is that through these last two years, being able to connect really made me feel like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna be able to do this. And it's not just about cross or my other teacher in, in eighth grade or my sixth grade teacher who's doing this. That message I think is, is really, really important. I want to ask this, this, uh, was there a teacher or experience that impacted you or inspired you throughout your educational career? You know, kindergarten, all the way to, to college? Was there a, a, a moment or an a person or anything like that that really stuck with you that you felt Maybe influenced maybe who you became, where you met you, where you were at? Um, I know you mentioned your, your, your chemistry teacher at that point, but is there any, anyone else or, or was it that person that was really, um, the person who sticks out for
Speaker 1:You? There actually have been a few. Of course, the first is my great-grandmother, Claudia pairs. But I think in the fourth and fifth grade I had the same teacher. She, she stayed with us going from fourth to fifth grade and fourth grade was a new school for me. New town. I was the only like black child in the school. Me and my sister. Um, and my teacher recognized that I was, I had no real help at home, I guess. And she really kind of, she saw that I was really smart. She would give me extra assignments when I, she could tell I was bored. It meant that someone outside of my house cared about me in a way that like, I didn't feel cared about at home. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, she, her name is Ms. Mrs.
Speaker 2:Like,
Speaker 1:Yeah, Mrs. Fran comment. And I've tried looking her up like, you know, as an adult and I can't find her, but I work with so many teachers and I know how hard teaching is and how degrading it can be or like demoralizing I guess to like not be appreciated. And so I know what it feels like to me when a student has reached out and shown me like, Hey, I'm now in dental school, or I'm now getting a PhD in science and I'm just like,
Speaker 2:I got a message this morning on Instagram from a student and none of my students use their real names and their Instagram handles handle mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So it's like, I got a message from Moonshine<laugh> and I was a seventh grade teacher. And through deduction, deductive reasoning, I figured out who it was. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, this person's now in college and they're responding and that, you know, you get one of those every once in a while. Yeah. And I feel like it just fills your tang. It's just so important that we, it's funny because like kind of to your point, we don't realize who or how we're making impacts on people.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative> and in what ways we just know that we are. And uh, you know, and I tell all the teachers, I said, you're, you have one of the few professions where you fall asleep worrying about other people's kids. And it's the, the words that we speak, the things that we do, people are always watching. I know. No pressure. Right? Yeah. Hopefully, uh, someone will, will listening find miss, uh, uh, Ms. Comment. Ms comment,
Speaker 1:Elementary school back in the eighties. But your, your talk about like this impact, it reminds me of the thing I wanted to say, but I didn't. But I'm gonna tell you right now. Um, you know, so I mentioned my, how science was not a priority when I went to school in my hometown. That's Lancaster, California. Um, but recently I got a phone call from a family friend and she was so excited and she called me to tell me that her daughter was super excited when she picked her up from school because I was in her classroom. She said, auntie Desiree was in my class today and she does, she works on lasers and she does spectroscopy and I wanna learn about spectroscopy now. So can we call Auntie Desiree? And I was like, wait, what? My friend was kind of confused. She's like, Desiree didn't tell me she was in town. Like, she had no idea why her daughter was saying I was in her classroom cause I was not physically there. Right. Right. And then I had to put the pieces together and I was like, oh my God, your daughter's in eighth grade already. It made me feel really old cuz I know this girl from a little baby. But I was like, oh my God, that's the eighth grade unit on light waves for Amplify that I wrote and I'm featured as the scientist, right. Because we have real scientists in the units. Right. Right. And they featured me in that one in my laser lab. And so this little girl who knows me really well, who lives in my hometown is seeing like representation in science. She doesn't necessarily know I'm a scientist. Right. She knows that I, I don't know what she knows about me. Like she just knows I'm Auntie Desiree and like, you know, I like gumbo at Christmas. Like that's what she knows about me,<laugh>. And so like she comes back and she's so excited cuz now she knows so much more about me and she knows that like, if I can do it and I came from where she's at, she can do it too. And she was super excited and I was like, it brought me to tears. I was just like crying in the car. I was driving<laugh> at the time and I was like, this is amazing work that I did is teaching you and all of your friends in this tiny little town that you live in. And like that to me is like so important because now this little girl knows that like, she knows me as just a normal human right. Who likes Star Trek and Star Wars and the Owl House. Right. And now she's over here like, oh my gosh, this normal human like wrote the science curriculum that I'm learning from. Which I think is just like, it's so fantastic and it really brought home for me kind of the importance of my work and why I'm doing, doing what I'm doing. And that's pretty awesome. And I get messages from Instagram, you know, from teachers who were like, Hey, did you work on this? Cuz you were featured in the video, but did you write this light waves unit? And I'm like, yeah. And they'll tell me like, I have students, this is their favorite unit. I've gotten notes from students, you know, saying like, I, this was my favorite unit in all of middle school. And I'm like, oh,<laugh>,
Speaker 2:Uh, that story just gives me, that story gives me chills because I just can imagine how surreal that must feel and it's not like you're directly making that impact mm-hmm.<affirmative>, um, on those kids. And I'm glad that you share that story. Uh, so, so that, uh, everyone can hear it because it's a, it's a powerful story and I lived it. I feel like I was living it through you just now as you were discussing it. Um, yeah. And I, I feel that, that way in the classroom kind of to a small degree because I get to have, when my students create posters of scientists mm-hmm.<affirmative> that we don't typically see I've got you on my list of scientists and they're like, I was like, I can call her like Mr. Cross, you know her. I was like, yeah, she's a friend of mine. I was talking to her the other day and they're like, whoa. She works with lasers. I you, Desiree Yeah. Uh, I've held you for so long and
Speaker 1:Yes. I'm sorry I talk, I told you I talked so much. I'm a teacher. No,
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. It was great. I wanna honor your time. Um, can you tell everybody where they can find out more about you again?
Speaker 1:So first off my, you can find me at, um, you can find me on Twitter at Darth Science, d a r t h s c i n c e. And you can also find me at Instagram at Dr. Laser Chick, Dr. Laser chick. Um, even though I don't post on Instagram that much. Um, I also have a website, which is laser chick.net. Um, I'm still working on it. It's not the best website yet, but, you know, it'll, it'll be better in the future.
Speaker 2:Would you, would you be willing to come back later on in the year and uh, do a part two?
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure. Yeah. So I can actually finish telling you the story of how I got into physics. Cause I totally didn't. Cause I'm all over the place.
Speaker 2:So, so everybody has to, so the cliffhanger, next time she comes back, she'll continue telling us the story. Yeah. Desiree, thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Dr. Desiree Whitmore, which we first released in March of last year. I hope you enjoyed either hearing it again or for the very first time. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to this show on your favorite podcast app. By doing that, you'll help other listeners to find us and please join our Facebook discussion group, science Connections, the Community stay tuned there and in the Science Connections Podcast feed for more on what's to come in season three. And thank you again for listening.
